Is the Prem Just a Feeder League for Real Madrid and Barcelona?

IMO in a footballing sense its La Liga no doubt. Players and teams there pay football. In England they sit back and defend, and rely on athleticism because the result is all that matters. So if you are talking about pure footballing sense, I think its La Liga in an instant. I think Hilal nailed it with his argument as well...

@Jack.....lol. Yeah because there is soo much logic in your rants isnt there? Its funny how you EPL fans always talk and talk but you dont put anything forward to back your claims. Please if you are so sure of your position answer me the two very simple questions I put to you; why is it (if the EPL is the best league) that outside of the top four not a single team has won anyting in Europe in the last 10 years? And name me one player outside the top four who could walk into either Barca or RM? I named you 4 already that would go the other way. In fact Chelsea are scrapping for 2 of them. They prob wont get either because they lack any history whatsoever, they just have money, not even the most money anymore. They already lost Robinho to Man city, i could see it happening again with Aguero.

Chelsea have one midfielder who would get into the best XI and that is Essien. Lampard is great but he wouldnt get in a midfield ahead of the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Gerrard or Kaka. Sorry mate, no chance. As for beating the shit out of Madrid next season, lets see. You didnt convincingly beat any teams in the CL this year so I am not sure where you get your confidence from, but I am willing to wait and see cos well who knows how this "new and improved" RM is gona fair next year. I tell you what though you wouldnt batter any of the other top four teams in Spain. Utd have yet to beat Villareal once out of the four times they have played in the last 2 years. Villareal are a tiny club who spend about a 10th of the money top EPL teams do and the all mighty Utd havent been able to beat them once. Liverpool couldnt beat Athletico Madrid who were convincingly thrashed more than once by Barca and several other teams in the league. Chelsea scraped by Valencia the last time you played them and that was at the peak of your powers. You won, but it certainly wasnt a grand victory. None of these clubs btw spend anywhere near the money top EPL teams do. I mean really you EPL fans need to get over yourselves. You would have thought seeing the EPL champs so convincingly outplayed in the final of the CL (when you all though they would walk it) might have woken you up a bit. They didnt even play a full strength team!!! So you know keep talking and talking, its what you english are good at, but results dont lie.

Real Madrid wouldn't have such an impressive honours list if it wasn't for government corruption.

You know, this isn't something that hasn't been said 10^6x o'er the internet.

To follow on Madridista's point, notice that the EPL's Champions League representatives are the same every year. This creates a positive feedback loop in which these clubs get CL income and it accumulates over the year. These clubs can come to depend on this income, with the little challenge that the rest of the EPL has offered the last few years. (Look up how much clubs make in the CL compared to the UEFA Cup. One analysis I read once showed that a club that makes the CL knockout stage is already making more than that year's UEFA Cup WINNER.) The last time all of CLAM wasn't in the Champs League was 2003, when Liverpool was replaced by (the now-relegated) Newcastle.

In Spain, though, the Positions 3-6 are constantly in flux (Real and Barca are-usually- but not always in the top two). You don't get clubs that can depend on constant CL income ever year, so they can't mount the wealth to build a squad that can allow them a deep CL run. And unless you are extremely lucky with injuries (like us this year), you need a deep and thus expensive squad to keep up in La Liga and the CL. Atletico, Valencia, Sevilla, Villareal... Bless 'em, but none of them can consistently (>2 straight years) make it into the Top 4.

That gives La Liga an on average better 3-6, but not the best 1-4.

To my mind there is little doubt La Liga nurtures a lot more talent than the EPL. Part of why RM's transfer policy is so maligned is that they in fact let ridiculous numbers of their players go to other La Liga teams or out of Spain altogether, while spending big on players with no affiliation to RM. Cambiasso (Inter), Negredo (Almeria), Granero, Soldado (Getafe), Juanfran (Osasuna), Arbeloa (Depor, then Liverpool), Diego Lopez (Villarreal), Mata (Valencia) - and this is *just* Real Madrid. Barca, Sevilla, Valencia, Athletic Bilbao all have strong youth development policies, but we're only just looking in the obvious places: David Villa came through the Sporting Gijon ranks, and Xabi Alonso through the Real Sociedad ranks (both teams have strong cantera policies too). Every single one of those players, if not a full international, is considered a key player for their club. So let's put the "Spanish clubs buy big and EPL clubs nurture talent" to bed. It's daft.

As for the overall strength of the league, I think the comparison between CL and UEFA Cup sides is a worthy one. That Spanish teams generally get into the knockout stages but not as consistently into the later stages as the EPL teams do says their top end is not as consistently strong as the EPL, but in the UEFA Cup there's no comparison. This season, EPL won out (Man City made it further than Valencia and Depor), but over the last five seasons in the UEFA Cup we've seen 11 Spanish clubs represented, with more than half of those also playing in the CL group stages during this time (Depor, Villarreal, Sevilla, Atletico, Valencia, Betis), with two wins (both Sevilla) and five different clubs in the quarters to show for it. In comparison, there have been 8 EPL clubs in the UEFA Cup these five seasons, with one team reaching the final (where Boro lost 4-0 to Sevilla), three teams in the quarter-finals, and only one team (Everton) also getting the chance to qualify for the CL (but lost to Villarreal during qualifying). So I don't see why it isn't fair to say the top end of the EPL might be stronger, but La Liga is stronger overall.

LOL, so we rant illogically do we? The irony...pot meet kettle.

Andres, fellow La Liga fan, I'll second that advice. We at the Barca Offside have been on give-Jack-space alert until further notice. It ain't easy being a Chelsea fan these days...

lightning* ......

Ahahah dont bring that up before he post another essay up on how deserving chelsea was of a place in rome

LIGHTING!!!!!! uh sorry i got flashbacks of iniesta's strike

jack's still a little angry over you-know-what. Give the guy a little bit more time.

jack ......................................................................................................................................................................
wonder why so many dots ? ill tell you , its because your post doesnt deserve to be replied to and ill be damned if did so , run along now

Yeah I highly doubt Kaka would have chosen ManU over Madrid. He probably would have thought it over breakfast, maybe on the can too, but he would have chosen Madrid.

If Perez has any sense at all, he will buy some defenders with that mountain of cash. Once he does that, Kaka has a chance at creating something much more meaningful and greater than anything he could ever accomplish at ManU.

The current Barca has a chance at becoming Dream Team 2.0, and one of the greatest sides to ever play the game.

They're going into a boxing ring against the greatest club in football history, who's just about to wake up from a slumber.

What's he going to do at ManU? Liverpool went on a string of draws to eff up their chances to win the league, Arsenal barely made it over Aston Villa (who lacked a bit of depth) and Chelsea have a manager that hasn't been in the league yet and might not work out. So basically he's going to waltz into a Prem title. Whatever.

And let's talk youth development. As mentioned before, Bilbao only take kids from their region and they've got Llorente who's a big target this transfer season. Valencia has Juan Mata, Villa, Silva, Marchena.. all top-quality players developed in Spain. Atletico de Madrid have.. should I keep going? One team alone has probably developed more local youth than the entire EPL put together. Come on now.

Sidenote: How in the hell is Real a bigger club than United right now? Maybe in revenue, but stature? As of right now? Please.

So, Spanish fans are just like Barcelona supporters; there's no logic to their rants.

Chelsea currently has two midfielders who get into a best XI in the world. Oh, they also have the best leftback, one of the top three rightbacks, one of the five best central defenders and a forward, who on his day, is easily the most dangerous on the planet. And the rest of the team, yeah, they're not bad, either. Simply put, put your Real Madrid out there next season against us and we'll slap the s*** out of them.

Remind me again, this is a joke thread right?

wayne KAKA would NOT have chosen man UTD over madrid i bet my left nut on that , even though we havent been the same for the past 5 years or so we will always be able to attract great players ..ask C.ronaldo he'll tell you
and you saying that ronaldo left man utd because fergie sold him is laughable he left because " he had asked to leave AGAIN" because he "DREAMS" of playing for Madrid we're a bigger club than utd or any EPL team for that matter my friend and thats not an opinion its a fact

TYson spain is about money and the EPL is about "nurturing talents" ? LMAO please tell me that was a typo , are you serious ? if you call travelling around the globe stealing 16 years old kids who are almost the finished products and then promote them a couple of years later nurturing then HELL yea the EPL nurtures a lot , all the EPL does is steal spain and italy's cantera kids because in england they're allowed to give kids under 18 professional contracts and all as opposed to the former two where a kid has to be 18 in order to be contracted by any club they dont call the EPL clubs "pirates" in europe for nothing brother

Really Jack? Ok so out of Chelsea and Arsenal who are the really great players? Arsenal have Cesc and and you could argue VP, besides that all their players are good, no more. Arshavin i like a lot but we need to see more and Walcott has yet to really impress. None of their players would for example get in the top 5 players in the world. Chelsea are a bit better, yes they have a very tough, strong, aggressive teams but individually are all the players that great? Lampard is awesome, Drogba has his moments, Essien is world class, besides those 3 the other players are all quality but nothing spectacular. Again none of them would get into top 5 player category. Liverpool are weird cos they have two phenomenal players and a bunch of average to good players. Torres and Gerrard are both incredible, world class players and they both would get a shout for best player. Macherano is also class, but what about the rest of the team....Kuyt, Babel, Benayoun, Alonso, etc. All decent players, but hardly spectacular. Utd is the only team who really can boast quality.

The rest of the league, well im not gona sit and go through every team but I watch the EPL every week and most players are average at best when you compare them to the quality in Spain. Aston Villa are probably your strongest team out of the top 4 right? Who do they have that is so special? Now look at Spain and some of the teams that sit outside of the top four, some the quality in their ranks....Aguero, Villa, Silva, Mata....all players that the top 2-3 clubs in the EPL would pay tens of millions for. Villa and Aguero in particular would walk into either of the top two teams in the EPL. Can you say anything similar about the players in England. Can you name one player who plays out of the top four that could walk into a Barca or Real Madrid side? I cant think of any. The EPL have the best "top 4" but that is it and four teams does not make a league. This is exemplified perfectly by the fact that English teams always get far in the CL but never get anywhere in the Uefa cup. One win and one final in 10 years. That says everything about the strength of the EPL as a whole.

Real Madrid and Barcelona are scrambling over the Everton and Villa players... no wait.
Man United and Chelsea are scrambling over Atletico and Valencia players. That sounds about right.

Right, honestly if you were to match-up 1-20 of both leagues and give an honest, informed answer as to who would win...
FEEL FREE TO COPY & PASTE THE BELOW INTO YOUR RESPONSES AND GIVE THE WINNERS OR A DRAW

Barca - Man U
Real Madrid - Liverpool
Sevilla - Chelsea
Atletico - Arsenal
Villarreal - Everton
Valencia - Aston Villa
Deportivo - Fulham
Malaga - Spurs
Mallorca - West Ham
Espanyol - Man City
Almeria - Wigan
Racing - Stoke
Atlethic - Bolton
Sporting - Portsmouth
Osasuna - Blackburn
Valldolid - Sunderland
Getafe - Hull
Betis - Newcastle
Numancia - Middlesborough
Recreativo - West Brom

Barca - Man U - BARCA
Real Madrid - Liverpool - LIVERPOOL
Sevilla - Chelsea - CHELSEA
Atletico - Arsenal - DRAW
Villarreal - Everton - VILLARREAL
Valencia - Aston Villa - VALENCIA
Deportivo - Fulham - DRAW
Malaga - Spurs - SPURS
Mallorca - West Ham - MALLORCA
Espanyol - Man City - MAN CITY (on a good day)
Almeria - Wigan - ALMERIA
Racing - Stoke - RACING
Atlethic - Bolton - ATHLETIC
Sporting - Portsmouth - PORTSMOUTH
Osasuna - Blackburn - DRAW
Valldolid - Sunderland - DRAW
Getafe - Hull - GETAFE
Betis - Newcastle - BETIS
Numancia - Middlesborough - DRAW
Recreativo - West Brom - BOTH WOULD FIND A WAY TO LOSE - DRAW

Kaka wouldnt choose united over real madrid if both had come for him. It would be a step down in terms of history.

"Anyone who can sanely write this drivel must be delusional or simply biased."

I was thinking a similar thing about the above sentence. Although, I wouldn't call someone who is delusional sane.

Plus I like how you are somehow upset that I think you have "good" players... my god, what an insult :)

On the other hand, I wouldn't switch my team's players for yours...

Tyson, I must say, your comments about La Liga are highly ignorant. All about cash, glamor, and glitz? They don't nurture young talent? What about a team like Atletic Bilbao who only have players on their team from the Basque region? You'll never see that in the Premier League, ever.

La Liga doesn't nurture young talent? Players like Mata, Bojan, Pablo, Messi, Busquets, Javi Martinez, Ignacio Camacho, Azpillicueta, Diego Capel are not young talent who have been "nurtured"? "Premier league buys young players and rears them into superstars" Those young players include players from Spain and I wonder why more teams in the Premier League don't have home grown talent like Rooney. Ask yourself why that is. Then come to me about "nurturing talent" or whatever your ignorant self says.

Via MAD...
“The EPL has the best players (on average)”
This is an opinion, not a fact and I for one do not share it. The top 2 have great players, the second group of 2 have good players, but the rest of the league - as has been pointed out - is filled with average, interchangeable parts.

This is laughable. Did you just say Chelsea and Arsenal just "have good players"? And, the rest of the league is "filled with average, interchangeable parts."???

Anyone who can sanely write this drivel must be delusional or simply biased.

@ Hilal 11.34am

Which team is more dominant than the other:


1) A team that won the CL twice in the past 10 years but reached the CL finals only twice

2) A team that reached the CL finals 10 consecutive years but won nothing. And let me add that this team beat the team in (1) eight out of ten times they met in the CL semis

If Serie A can't compare, then why are EPL teams looking to buy talent from Serie A? Why are EPL/English national teams using Italian managers?

Shouldn't those people all be beneath notice if they "can't compare"?

It's as big a myth as EPL teams buying young talent and selling it off as it becomes past sell by. Off the top of my head I can think of Chelsea buying Ballack, Deco and Baletti in recent years - all past prime.

With regards to Ruud, obviously he was brilliant at PSV and a player a lot of clubs would have wanted. But he wasn't yet a "superstar", if you see what I mean.

Drabik's Shevchenko and Veron examples are a good counterargument though, as they were already at big clubs.

I'll definitely concede that the headline is sensational at best (inaccurate at worst).

But still... I stand by this narrower verion of my argument:

That where big name players are concerned, the transfer traffic (whether actual signings or just rumours) tends to flow from the Prem's big four to Spain's top two (eg Fabregas to Barcelona) while the idea of Real/Barca's best players being successfully wooed by Utd/Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenal seems a lot less realistic.

Tyson: That's nice and all, and I would never say that Real Madrid is not a force to be reckoned with in La Liga. 31 titles don't lie, after all.

But I don't see what any of that has to do with my post or your first post.

Real Madrid still doesn't equal La Liga. The two terms are not interchangeable.

Trying to battle between whether England or Spanish leagues are better obscures a more painful reality. Italy, Germany and other leagues clearly can't compare.

Italian teams were just stomped since AC won the surprise win a few years back. Bayern was blown out by Barca.

And it's just sad to see what's happened to Dutch leagues.

And I'll posit one huge reason - language. World-wide audiences speak English or Spanish - not French, German or other languages. That means that the Spanish and English clubs can get the extra cash to buy who they need.

And as far a English players being so bad - anyone who wouldn't look at Lampard or Gerrard?

If you look at the top 15 transfers ever, only 3 were FROM english clubs. 2 of these were TO another english club. So from the top 15 transfers, only ronaldo has left to another league from england.

Robinho and Mendieta left spain for a move to england and italy respectively.

Kaka, Zidane and Ronaldo left italy for spain, whilst Schevchenko and Veron left italy for england.

Conclusion, EPL and la liga very similar - neither is a feeder league - thats just a silly statement.

I don't have enough time but I have to disagree. In the case of Beckham going to Madrid, United didn't lose him, Fergie disliked Becks' media persona and the way he seemed bigger than United so he sold him. Beckham has openly admitted that he was sold, and that he cried when he was told he had to leave.

Same with Henry, Wenger thought that Henry was getting too big for his squad and decided to cash in. And I genuinely think that Fergie has the same feeling with Ronaldo. This whole story has been bigger than most things in the last year and Fergie was sick of it, so he sold him.

Somebody made the point above about the weather, and it's fair.

And c'mon Daryl, when United signed Ruud he was totally at the top of his game, in every sense, after a few years Fergie moved him on. Kaka didn't want to move from Milan, he just chose Madrid over Man City, I'm sure he would have chosen United over Madrid if they'd come in for him.

Sorry but it's a pretty foundation-less argument.

We will see Hilal. I can see our under 21s winning the tournement and proving you wrong :P.

I was gona post something about KRB's comment but MAD summed it up pretty nicely.

The comment about the EPL on average having the best players really made me laugh though. On average the EPL has the worst players, all your quality is concentrated in 3-4 teams, the rest of the teams dont have any good players of note. Now lets look at Spain, you have teams like Athletico Madrid who arent even really a top four team yet the boast one of the best players in the world (Aguero). Valencia who barely made it into the top 6 have one of the most sought after strikers in the world as well as one of the best wingers (Liverpool are desp for Silva). Then there are teams you probably havent even heard of that boast lots of talent, most of which English clubs will try and buy over the summer. Also a leagues' strength lies in its homegrown talent because foreign players will always come and go (as you see with Ronaldo).Where is that? All your good players are taken from other leagues, where they will more than likely return. You lost Ronaldo, Cesc will return to Barca soon enough, Torres will realise he aint winning shit with liverpool and I can see him in Italy or back in Spain in a year or two. You have very very little domestic home grown talent and that is where the EPL is really weak and why they will never dominate as they hope to. Now Spain has all the best players (Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Kaka, Ronaldo, Villa, Aguero prob Ribery and Ibra) so what is the EPL going to do. If anything the decline of the EPL has just begun.

What about Tevez and Mascherano? They were attracted to the premier league, I'm sure there were offers from La Liga.

What about Veron and Stam? Were they not at their prime when joining United? What about Robinho?

And as for someone saying Zidane is still the most expensive due to difference in currency values. If this was the case, then you would need to look through all the transfers in history and 'update' them all.

OhYes: The most successful team in La Liga history has always been Real Madrid. When you refer to a league it only requires an iota of intelligence to refer to the team that has sat on top of that league more than any other in history.

Real Madrid is the epicenter of Spanish football and its only a matter of time before they return to their throne.

Every dog has its day but it's rare for a team to be at the top of their game so many times.

Fact of the matter is Real Madrid is the kingpin of La Liga and the most illustrious and successful Spanish team of all time.

If your talking about La Liga you'd be a fool to dismiss Real Madrid overwhelming success and contribution to the league.

It's not money thats going to kill football its the over commercialisation. With so many idiots who don't have an idea about football educated fans are nearly dead. When you've got people on a football blog not knowing what they are talking about you know its bad lol.

"As I said before, the power is concentrated in only two teams in Spain, and three in Italy. How many different clubs have won the European Cup from Spain? Only 2. From Italy? 3. From England? 4, and that does not include Arsenal or Chelsea. One of them, in fact, was playing in the 3rd division of English football (Nottingham Forest)."

This argument doesn't hold water.

1st of all Arsenal and Chelsea are arguable powers in England - no where else. Collectively haven't won the Champions League or the UEFA Cup in over 15 years and that European cup was all that they have collectively won in their entire history.

2nd of all the rest of your argument hinges on the last 5 years. Arsenal and Nottingham forest have won nothing in Europe for the last four years. Bringing them up, or concentrating on the last two years of co-efficients, or the last 5 years of Champions League is disingenuous.

More accurately, the power of the league in England is between 2 clubs. I think we can rule out Nottingham Forest as a power nowadays.

"The EPL has the best players (on average)"

This is an opinion, not a fact and I for one do not share it. The top 2 have great players, the second group of 2 have good players, but the rest of the league - as has been pointed out - is filled with average, interchangeable parts.

"The EPL’s domination of Europe has really just begun."

It has to start first. It hasn't begun to dominate anything. In the last five years, as you say, Spain has won as many Champions leagues as England.

"Which of course included Barcelona’s, umm, “controversial” 2nd-leg against Chelsea this season."

And this is just funny. Chelsea advanced out of the group stage after a, '...umm, “controversial"' win at home against Roma and advanced the round of 16 after a, '...umm, “controversial"' win against Juventus away and a, '...umm, “controversial"' draw in the first leg of their tie against Barca. It's about time it happened to them, yes?

Corey, so when Florent Malouda comes over from Ligue 1, and says he’s astounded by the pace of English football, that’s just him buying into some myth? It’s clear to anyone that the average pace of an EPL game is far greater than the slower build-ups seen in the Spanish or Italian leagues.

As for the physicality, how can you say that refs in England do not let more go than they do in Italy or Spain? No doubt that is a reason why your “superstars” like those leagues better, because they are afforded more time on the ball and are given greater protection by the officials. However, it would seem from the worldwide viewing numbers that more people consider the brand of football played in England more in keeping with the sporting intent behind the game. It’s not a game for babies, after all.

I dont buy into the "faster pace and phsyicality" of the Premier League. Its a tired cliche really, and it just hides the fact that the technical abilities of the players in the league are less due to the focus on players running into one another. No wonder skilled players (typically superstars) dont adjust to the Premier League!

Daryl, when I gave the example of Sheva, I was highlighting a case where a team (Chelsea) severely overpaid for a player that was past his prime. Milan were only too happy to sell him for that price!

Yes, part of the problem was Sheva's inability to settle into the faster pace and physicality of the Premier League.

Hilal, don’t get all anti-English on us now. There’s too many of those already. What I said was “European results" … I was talking about the coefficients list used by UEFA, which measures how a country’s teams do in both competition (Champions League and UEFA cup). England is top of that list, and has been for 2 years now.
There’s a very fine line between winning a cup competition and not. The best team many times does not always win. It’s always possible for a team like West Ham, say, to beat Man Utd over two legs. In fact, they beat them home and away in the 2007-08 season. So they would’ve won any two-legged cup tie, but can anyone really say that West Ham would be a better team than Man Utd because of that? Who really believes, at the start of any EPL season, that West Ham will best Man Utd in the table after 38 games? Leagues are where you find out the true strength of teams vis-à-vis one another, not cups.
As for Aston Villa, they did not contend for 4th place this year. They were there for awhile, but once Arsenal caught them early in 2009, they faded badly. And in the UEFA Cup, they sent a second-string team to play that tie! The reason? Because it made more sense for them to concentrate on trying to attain that 4th place in the league. The UEFA Cup is a distant cousin to the Champions League … the dropoff in money is very significant, such that English clubs simply do not care about it (i.e. it would be idiotic to do well in the UEFA Cup but jeopardize your place in the EPL), and will regularly place performance in the league ahead of that cup competition.
As I said before, the power is concentrated in only two teams in Spain, and three in Italy. How many different clubs have won the European Cup from Spain? Only 2. From Italy? 3. From England? 4, and that does not include Arsenal or Chelsea. One of them, in fact, was playing in the 3rd division of English football (Nottingham Forest).
The EPL has the best players (on average), the best coaches, the best championship, the highest worldwide viewing audience, the most money, and is only 2nd to Germany in terms of attendances (and that’s only b/c it’s limited by the various stadia capacities). Hell, the League Championship is the 5th biggest league in the world.
Barcelona really have been the only Spanish team to have done anything in the Champions League in the last 5 seasons. In the last 5 seasons, in knockout ties featuring a Spanish and English team, the English team has won 8 of the 12 ties. The other 4 were, as you say, Barcelona’s two wins over English teams en route to the cup. Which of course included Barcelona’s, umm, “controversial” 2nd-leg against Chelsea this season.

The EPL’s domination of Europe has really just begun.

@alessio,

You're right, Chelsea signing Sheva is probably the closest a Prem team has come to signing a big name player at his peak.

@KRB,

I agree, the language similarities definitely play a big part in South American players preferring La Liga.

Not to mention Utd go their asses handed to them in the final by a makeshift Barca side....best league you say? I think not.

@KRB
"The EPL has been the best league in terms of European results"

You want to look at stats re Europe, here are some nice ones for you;

In the last 10 years 4 Spanish clubs have won the CL, 2 Italian, 2 English, 1 Portugese and 1 German. So clearly this idea of dominance is misguided. In the last 5 years its two for EPL, two for Spain and 1 for Italy. Again no clear sign of dominance. Oh and it doesnt matter how many English teams are in the semis because it is the winner who matters. I would also note that both times Barca won the CL they beat two English teams getting there. Both times beating the reigning EPL Champs.

Another interesting point; in the last 10 years only 1 English team has won the Uefa cup and that was Liverpool back in 2001. Other than that the only english team to even get to a final was thrashed 4-0 by a Spanish team. Spanish teams have won the Uefa cup the most as well in the last 10 years, having won it 3 times.

So to recap in the last 10 years in Europe Spanish teams have won 7 major trophies while English teams have won 3. Italian teams have also won 3. If you want to look at the last 5 years then Italy and England have both won two and Spain have won 4. This whole concept of EPL dominance is only really viable if you ACTUALLY WIN SOMETHING. Nobody remembers who is in the semis except for Sky Sports commentators who are paid to shamelessly promote the EPL. The reality is that aside from your top 4 teams the rest of the EPL is pretty damn crap. None of your mid table teams ever do well against equivalent teams from other leagues. Aston Villa for example, who did genuinely challenge for 4th spot this season, didn't really get anywhere in Europe. Historically the EPL teams do the worst in the Uefa cup out of any of the other top leagues, was does that tell you?

Dominance is measured by trophies won, nothing less. So that being said Spain are clearly the most dominant force in Europe regardless of how many English teams are in the semis. Lets also not forget that the Spanish team won the Euros while England didnt even qualify. Its always smoke and mirrors with the English.

Tyson: There's a difference between La Liga and Real Madrid.

I find it ironic that you say that when Barcelona had 7 home-grown talents when they dominated ManU.

Others like Bilbao, Valencia, Sevilla, and Atleti are always developing talent.

Ask your boys at Liverpool what they think about Spanish youth. ;)

All I will say is the record fee still belongs to zidane. Ronaldo second with kaka figo and vieri fighting for third fourth and fifth. I would need to do some calcs on the three.

Zidanes 76mln in 2001 is worth 98mln today, whereas real only :) paid 93 for ronaldo.

You cannot just say that 93 is bigger than 76 because theye were not paid in the same time!

Zidane's the record holder!

Daryl, the World Player has been, for the most part, from a latin or South American country, and as such, La Liga represents the best league coupled with that latin culture. In the 1990’s, it was Serie A that benefitted from this need for some familiarity. It is no doubt tougher for a Brazilian to settle in England than it is for them to settle in Italy or Spain (even though the language is different from the Brazilian’s native Portuguese in all cases, the latter two are more closely derived).

Henry and Beckham were past their best. No arguments. But they were still massive massive names, and they left for Barca and Madrid.

Again, my argument's not necessarily about talent, it's about superstar names.

In many ways the Prem teams have it right: buying players before they're massively famous (eg Henry/Ronaldo) and then selling them on when their celebrity is bigger than their actual talents (although that's not necessarily true in C-Ron's case).

But in terms of talent, I still think it's true that the Prem is yet to sign a "superstar" at the peak of his powers. Let me put it this way: How many times has someone been named World Player of the Year and then subsequently joined a Premier League club?

Daryl, what other big-name player (who was in their footballing prime) has the EPL lost to La Liga, besides Ronaldo? Kaka was never in the EPL.

Please don’t say Jonathan Woodgate or Michael Owen. Owen was never the same after his multiple hamstring operations.

Henry was past his best when sold. Much like Shevchenko when he joined Chelsea. Soccer is a business after all, and if someone offers you crazy money (which was done for both Ronaldo and Shevchenko), you take it, and then go buy two very decent players.

Despite selling high priced players, for the last 3 years, 3 of the 4 finalists were EPL teams. And the year before that Liverpool won.

Great for Real to get Kaka and Ronaldo, bummer that they don't have the incredible Spanish talents at Liverpool.

Man U did the smart thing - take the money and run. They won't replace Ronaldo, but they won't suck next year, either. Plus, they didn't have a choice, C Ronaldo wanted to go.

Spain buys seasoned players from the EPL, at high prices. EPL buys the other way around. I think the EPL clubs know when to sell, and the fact that a lot of EPL clubs have foreign ownership, i doubt they feel as loyal as perez. So loyal that you go big in your pocket. Chelsea 3 years ago is absolutely paled by what Real does on a regular basis in the transfer market.

Im at work and dont have time to read all the posts, so i dont know if someone has mentiones this, but i think the prem league is in place to tire out the best players in the world to give England a leg-up in international competition. Im basing this on Portuguals struggle to qualify, and the fact that The Netherlands, who have few players in the premiership, are the first to qualify. cRon couldnt get it doen internationall, and Tevez seems to have problems in his own qualifiers. Compare that with the success of international superstars from other leagues (Messi from La Liga, being my primary example).. Anyway, that is off set by England NOT doing so well themselves in international competition. Just a little consirpacy theory for thought.

Torres is some kind of celebrity though.
And if Aguero comes to Chelsea he could also be a superstar in a few years.

KRB,

Arguments about how much money is in the Premier League and how Prem teams perform in the Champs League are beside the point.

The fact still remains that Prem teams seem to keep losing big name players to Real and Barca.

I agree that Henry and Becks were past their prime when they left, but the above post is about star power more than effectiveness on the pitch.

Second that from Jonas about the weather, food and women!

What nonsense. Obviously you didn’t really think this through. Otherwise, you might have looked at the transfer activity from Spain to England (Fabregas, Xabi Alonso, Torres, Arteta, etc.) and then compared it to activity going the other way. As others have said, Henry was past his prime when he went to Barcelona. Arsenal have barely skipped a beat without him there, at least in their offensive game. Losing Vieira, Campbell and Keown was no doubt the bigger loss for them.

Kaka has always stated that he wants to play in the Premier League one day … looks then that he considers Spain a “stepping stone” to that end. That he refused Man City doesn’t mean he would refuse Man Utd.

Man Utd sold Ronaldo because Madrid simply offered a crazy amount of money. Man Utd know better than anyone that one player, no matter how good they are, doesn’t make a team. Madrid looks like they’re back to the galactico’s policy, again paying little attention to their defensive soundness both at the back and in midfield. I doubt they’ll make it past the quarterfinals of the Champions League next season, again.

Lastly, the money in La Liga is concentrated in only two teams, Madrid and Barcelona. Everyone else is in selling mode. The owners with the big pockets are not buying up Spanish teams, but EPL teams, and where the money is you’ll find the better players. The EPL has been the best league in terms of European results over the last 5 years (just google “UEFA coefficients list” to see), and will only extend that lead in the years ahead. They had 9 teams in Europe this season, and they still ended up top of the major soccer nations. That’s depth.

I think a major factor would be: the weather

face it,I'd rather play in sunny spain instead of rainy,gray england. not to talk about food or women!

so it's not about money or status,it's mostly about the surroundings methinks

Re: Paris + Cristiano.

Isn't the recipe for a powerfully new mutated super-virus something to do with two viruses that have never met before coming together all in one place?

Be afraid, people.

It all has to do with weather - If u had a choice of going either to spain or Northwest england, Where would you go?

I think your correct in the majority of situations.

Henry and Beckham were both well past their footballing prime but they were right in the middle of their marketing prime.

It's a situation that has gone on for many many years though. As soon as a star peaks he gets bought up by a Spanish team.

Before Ronaldo the world record was Kaka, before Kaka it was Zinedine Zidane, before that it was Figo. All 4 world records held by Real Madrid alone.

La Liga is just money, money and more money. Footballers in La Liga are all about making money and thats what the teams are about.

It's big money and it's a hell of a lot more money than any team in the Premier League has ever mustered.

Premier League is more an affair of nurturing young talent or buying young players and rearing them into superstars.

La Liga just throws around buckets of money to sign everybody up.

Thats why La Liga sucks as a league. If you make footballers into multi million dollar prima donnas it isnt long before they lose sight of their goals.

It's better when you have to work for your bread because that way you won't take the foot off the pedal.

This is why I prefer to generally follow smaller leagues that don't get as much attention. All the players work their backside off to get recognition and get their pay packets.

La Liga is for uneducated football viewers who think football is all about glamour, glitz and money.

Bergkamp is a notable mention for a world superstar who peaked in England. I think more to the point is a superstar who did come to England at his peak, and that's surely Jurgen Klinsmann signing for Spurs?

I believe that Henry was past his peak when he left.

Henry had passed his peak at Arsenal. Beckham certainly had.

Kaka obviously turned down Manchester City because he didnt want to be known as a greedy git. Ronaldo is probably at his peak, but thats no reason to suggest that once a player reaches his peak he goes to Spain.