Serie A: Falling Behind?
By: Daryl | March 12th, 2009
Here are your Champions League quarter-finalist teams, by nationality:
England: 4 (Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool)
Spain: 2 (Barcelona, Villarreal)
Portugal: 1 (FC Porto)
Germany: 1 (Bayern Munich)
Which means one big footballing nation is missing the quarter-final party. And that nation is Italy.
A look at the UEFA Cup isn’t any more encouraging, with Udinese now the sole Serie A survivor.
So here’s the question: Is the lack of Serie A teams in the final eight this year just one of those things? Or is Serie A falling behind its Spanish and English rivals?
Here’s the number of Italian quarter-finalists in the five most recent Champions League seasons:
2004/5: 3 (Milan, Inter, Juve)
2005/6: 3 (Milan, Inter, Juve)
2006/7: 2 (Milan, Roma)
2007/8: 1 (Roma)
2008/9: 0
Definitely a trend there. But is this proof of Italian club’s decline? Or just a co-incidence presented as a stat?
I’m thinking it’s a little from Column A and a little from Column B.
Calciopoli had a huge effect in 2006, because in relegating Juventus it weakened one of the giants. You could say that for a team that was relegated and gutted three seasons ago, Juve did extremely well to make the last 16 this year.
Milan – the most recently successful CL team – didn’t qualify for this year’s competition. In one way that suggests Serie A is nice and competitive at the top, but – as they’re proving in England – a competitive top four isn’t necessarily a good thing in terms of Champions League performance.
On the other hand, all three Italian teams in the last 16 faced tough opposition in Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal. And an injured Roma took Arsenal to penalties, Juve ran Chelsea close, and Inter – well, Inter played Man Utd.
So maybe it’s just the luck of the draw?
Maybe. But if Serie A was stronger, then we could have expected at least one out of the three to defeat their Premier League opposition.
The simple answer is probably the obvious one: Money. Italian teams have spent less in recent years, and English teams have spent more. More money buys better players, better players gets you further in the Champions League. But money is cyclical, and as a result so is football. In a few years time we might be asking why there are no English teams in the quarter-finals.
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Category: World Football
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In other words, schaafito enjoys a good pinball of EPL. EPL is so overrated thats what I really hate about it. Man Utd have one of the largest squads because of no limitation set by the FA. La Liga has a set requirement of 25 with others coming from your youth team for no more than 10 games. EPL is a free for all battle.
Posted from
Canada
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Of course when Italian teams defend it´s catennacio and ugly football, but it was intelligent ¨tactical¨football when Park and Rooney were playing as defenders last CL under Fergie.
I think the fact that 1/2 the world speaks English is one of the reasons the EPL is famous. Chinese and Japanese learn English…not French, Spanish, or Italian. Easier to follow a league/team when you speak the language, even if no one is actually from the country or anything.
Posted from
Spain -
I dont think that the Italian league is in good standing financially, that seems a bit of a leap.
But I hardly believe that the Champions League dictates which league is the best. If the negative football that wins Liverpool and Chelsea Champions League games is the best Europe has to offer then I feel as if we have gone backwards in the sport. After Spain so brilliantly triumphed in the Euro, we are back to the reality that club football is simply a game of money, and with the EPL spending the most, they are getting the results. Until that is curtailed or at least brought on level terms, we will continue to see the EPL “dominance”.
But who is to say that the EPL is better then any other league. Its all a matter of opinion, its how you like to watch your football. The English love the physical nature of the game, and to watch Wigan play Bolton you would be right to confuse it with a rugby match from time to time. But if you want to see alot of standing around, but some more displays of technical ability, go watch Serie A and La Liga. As far as entertaining, technically fluent football goes, my vote is the Bundesliga and Ligue 1. They may not have the star names or the big representation in European club competition, but to me, they are the most pleasing to the eye.
Posted from
United States -
First off, it is all swings and roundabouts. In the 1990s it was all about Serie A, I remember growing up thinking no-one would get close to them. Then in the early 00s, it was all Spain, *that* Real side, a great Barca side, and really great players at Deportivo and so on. Now its the Prem’s turn in the sun.
I think that at the moment, the Prem is the best league in the world, but most measures. I’m not sure how it can be suggested that the Prem is less competitive than Serie A (Where Inter have an enforced dominence) or Spain (Barca are way out in front, Real only likely team to compete).
I do love Serie A. I fell in love with football watching the Calcio in the mid 1990s, and I’m as sure as I sit here that they’ll be back.
Posted from
United States -
I don’t think there is anything to get excited about over here. From what I saw over the last three weeks I don’t think there is some gulf between the two.
The Italian teams seemed actually more impressive than the epl teams during the first and second legs. For instance look at Juventus. If you think Chelsea took it to them your mistaken. Juventus was missing half their starting roster for these two legs. Important impact players like Camro and Nedved were not present in one or both legs. Not to mention Juventus’ coach Ranieri is very out of favour right now. Compare that to a healthy Chelsea with the golden Guus as the coach. I mean come on, from what I saw Italian teams looked pretty damn competative. A couple of luck bounces and it could have easily been three english teams out.
Also, you have to understand, Arsenal, Manchester, Chelsea and Liverpool are all that England have in terms of competative teams.
Italians didn’t have their Euro powerhouse Ac Milan present in this tournament.
Regardless, I do admit, some tweaking is going to be done in Italy. I think Inter will look very different next season and a couple of additions to Roma as well. But, look at what Juventus accomplished with a very young line-up. Not to mention, now the epl and their blind supporters know the names of Balotelli and Giovinco. Keep an EYE on them next year cause their gonna mix things up nicely in the Champions league – especially if the rumours are true and Cassano goes to Juventus!
Posted from
United States -
Italian league is in good standing financially, compared to Spain and England. Each team is required by the FIGC (Italian FA) to prove their financial viability before the season starts. We might not be splashing out 100million euro+ bids, but our big teams aren’t 400million+ in debt, either.
Inter’s always choked in the Champion’s League, Liverpool were gifted two goals from the referee, and congrats to Chelski for beating the 2006-2007 Serie B champions. Arsenal needed penalties to beat a Roma that was fielding John Arne Riise of all people at center-back. Context, that’s all.
Posted from
Spain -
Hmm, well Juve did look better than Chelsea over the two legs, Inter probably deserved a draw against United in the second leg (though United were the better side in the first) and an Injury-ravaged Arsenal were about matched with an injury-ravaged Roma. But could you see any Serie A side beating Real 5-0 over two legs? Nope, me either.
Also, we have Villa, who have been better than Arsenal and a top-four contender all season.
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United States -
Rob, I think when people say that the Prem is less competitive they mean top to bottom. You go into a season almost guaranteed to see united, ‘pool, chelski and the gunners finish in the top four. Going back five seasons, its been that way(I am counting 04-05 in there because pool won the Cl and got in for the next season). That’s not the case with Serie A. Hell in 05-06 Chievo got the 4th CL spot. They were relegated the next season. Sure you can go into the season thinking that the top 4 will be Roma, Juve, Milan and inter and you would stand a good chance of being correct. It’s not as guaranteed as in the EPL because you have teams like Udinese, Palermo, Napoli, Genoa, Fiorentina fighting for the european spots and possibly that 4th CL spot. What is there in the EPL Everton, Villa and Tottenham? Im glad Villa is fighting the good fight this season and doing well so far. It’s nice to see that monotony broken up once in a while.
That’s just my two cents on the subject, I don’t know if anyone else agrees or not.
Posted from
United States -
ok, so my blackberry likes to wait a while and post something as compared to my mac. seems everyone already posted on the subject haha
Posted from
United States -
But could you see any Serie A side beating Real 5-0 over two legs? Nope, me either.
Not without some very generous calls from the referee, no.
Posted from
Spain -
For what it’s worth though, Juventus defeated them 4-1 on aggregate earlier this season.
Posted from
Spain -
Thats true, Juve were the better side in the group stage, tho thats not exactly like a two legged fixture. My only real point anyway is that its ok to cry Double Standards, but if they shoe was on the other foot, you wouldn’t be calling for context.
As for the bottom of the Prem not being competitive, well any of the bottom 10 are still looking at the drop, you can spin that either way.
Posted from
United States -
I’ve been making this argument since all of the Serie A teams have gone out. Overrated- the amount of EPL teams in the final, underrated- the amount of actual English players in those teams.
It was argued back that not many CL teams have that much homegrown talent in it, which of course I had to disprove and with some research came up with these numbers: Out of Juventus’s squad of 26, 13 are Italian and 13 are not and Amauri is on his way to being Italian as well. That’s pretty respectable in my opinion as well as impressive.
Bayern Munich have 12 German players as opposed to their 10 international players.
Villareal has 13 Spanish players and only 12 international players.
Barcelona are really close with 11 Spaniards in comparison to their 13 international players.
AS Roma have 13 Italians and 14 internationals.
Sporting Lisbon has 25 Portuguese players out of 36.
Panathinaikos have 14 Greek players and 13 internationals.
Olympique Lyonnais have 15 French players and 11 internationals.
I’d say that the non-EPL teams that were/are in the CL are doing really well with homegrown talent as opposed to the big 4.
Liverpool- 7/31 English players
ManU- 14/36
Arsenal- 6/32
Chelsea- 6/27Also, it is really hard to compare leagues and I don’t believe doing so is a fair argument.
La Liga is sexy and stylish. You get more goals and sleeker passes. They work their way up the field with amazing passes and crosses and style.
Serie A is all tactical. It’s a defensive game. You get smaller scorelines and most games are won by a single goal. It requires a lot more thinking and strategy and defenders are just as much a part as the strikers.
EPL is just power. It’s basically just push the ball forward and get as many shots as possible. It’s not stylish or sexy (like La Liga) but it’s not at all defensive or near as tactical as Serie A. It’s somewhere in the middle and I feel that’s what is the draw of it. You don’t get the huge scorelines or the small ones and I think it’s just more appealing with to fans with it’s middle ground.
Posted from
United States -
Roma won their CL group, beating Chelsea at home 3-1. I thought they were better than Arsenal. If the ref calls that PK against Clichy they are through its as simple as that. While I agree the EPL is stronger, I think Serie A is different product as some of the comments have stated. Obviously Serie A is strong enough to produce World Cup talent, to write it off would be a mistake.
Posted from
United States -
I agree that the CL is not a good representation about the strength of each league, because as we’ve all said its different styles of football. To me the only real way would be to take the league winners and place them in opposing leagues and have them play an entire season there.
I doubt Man United would preform well in Serie A during the course of an entire season, and the same goes for Juve/Roma in the EPL (Inter has enough foreign players to go up against Chelsea and Arsenal)
Posted from
United States -
@ Duvel- I totally agree. If you go by the International competitions that have recently done well, the Spaniards and Italians are top dogs right now. The Serie A is able to retain an incredible amount of that talent. During WC06 every player on the Italian NT played in the Serie A and since then, many have left and the status of Serie A has declined quite a bit. Also, if you view the Spaniards- a lot of them have taken over in the EPL and dominate headlines there. I put this up to an economical argument that the EPL is getting just ridiculous amounts of money pumped into it right now and the top players go where the money is.
Posted from
United States -
I doubt we will ever see a quarterfinal without an English team
Italy is losing ground to Germany in my opinion, Spain and England are on top anyway.
Posted from
Germany -
I’ll be satisfied with EPL dominance of the CL…we’ll just keep the international country trophies.
Posted from
United States -
Wow. Have I stumbled onto goal.com? It doesn’t take a genius to conclude that Serie A is weaker than the Premiership right now: just take a look at the players on display for the top teams. The rest of the English league is probably slightly weaker than Spain’s for sure, and possibly Italy’s too; but there’s an argument that the UEFA cup teams have done pretty well in recent years — at least as well as their Italian counterparts: take a look at Bert Kassies’ club points totals for a simplified look at the comparative performances.
Yes it’s because of the money: when has it ever been different? The English transfer fee records still haven’t surpassed the ones Italian clubs set in the 90s, and what did Real tempt Zidane and Juve with? A year’s supply of Haribo Tangfastics?
Yes there are a ton of foreigners in the English league. I’m not a member of my local far-right party, so I fail to see the problem with this. Will it make the national team crap? Yes, but it’s been crap for 40 years! Foreigners or not.
Not as competitive as Serie A? Definitely, unfortunately. But, wait…winners from ‘91 to ‘98, during Serie A’s peak: Milan – Milan – Milan – Juve – Milan – Juve – Juve – Milan. Wow, how competitive. What about competition from places 2-6? Well, what about the Prem’s competitiveness from positions 4 to below? Yes, I’m twisting the stats, but so are some of you.
You’d think that after being derided for 20 years about how poor and naive English football was, people would understand why some English commentators/fans are excited that the English teams are winning again; but no.
Bitter and blinded.
Posted from
United States -
So, France isn’t a big footballing nation anymore huh?
Posted from
United States -
The Italian sides where suffering from injuries…shouldn’t that tell you that they take the league more serious. I’ve seen relegation teams fight for dear life so to speak, while in other leagues the teams in last place just give up after mid season. Next year you will see three teams in the final four. Forza Inter!!!!!!!
Posted from
United States -
I first started following football in during the Spanish dominance of the late 90s/early 00s, with the Italian greats in decline and Madrid, Valencia, Barcelona and SuperDepor the stars of the show. I do believe these things go in cycles, for me the Premiership is a distant third when it comes to enjoying the big leagues, and even though the quality is still inconsistent, I still enjoy the slow thoughtful play of Serie A and the technical flair and unpredictability of La Liga over the EPL, which for me seems like a European version of the NFL both in style and substance.
Posted from
Canada -
I think firstly there is an element of money and the resulting quality of players. However I also think that in the modern game the English style of closing dow the opposition high up the pitch is much more effective than the Italian way where teams invite the opposition onto them. Look at how easy it was for Man Utd to pass the ball out of their own half compared to Inter who were made fight for every yard
Posted from
Ireland -
There is plenty of reasons for the collapse of Calcio. Calciopolly was an important moment, and everything fallen apart after that.
http://www.soccerpie.com/serie-a/the-collapse-of-italian-football/
Posted from
United States -
I believe the driving force behind the success of the EPL is without a shadow of a doubt the foreign contingent. Just about every “English” club side’s marquee players are of non-British background; they are quite often the difference in matches between EPL and non-EPL sides. Ronaldo against Porto is one classic, recent example. The greatest strength of the EPL, though, is it’s superior marketing. Even before the EPL was a factor internationally, many in the English speaking world, (e.g. Australia) were led to believe that English clubs were the strongest and most successful in the world, ignoring the fact that up until Man U’s extremely lucky victory over Palmeiras in the 1999 Toyota Cup, no English side had EVER tasted success outside of Europe in 100 years of football history. It also pays to mention that their success at European level in the last 100 years has also been miniscule, if compared to the achievements of the Spanish, Italian, German, and even the Dutch clubs. During Serie A’s reign in the 90s, it is interesting to note that the EPL had a stubborn resistance when it came to the issue of importation. There were exceptions like Ardiles, Villa, and Mirandinha, but these were in no way enough to make any real difference to an entire league that was suffering with a lack of technical prowess. Watch Wimbledon vs Liverpool in the 1988 FA Cup final, it was the most disgusting display of football that I ever witnessed in my life, yet it was typical of the standard of football in the EPL at the time. There is no way the EPL could have continued in this manner unless stimulated, and ultimately changed by imports, and this is what is occurring at this point in time. The “English” league is, in fact, an international league, and more so than any other league in history. Enlgand’s poor record at World Cup, and European Cup level is further proof of it’s average standing as a footballing nation in its own right. Amoungst past winners of world cups, England has the poorest record at both club and national level. I believe that if you were to take the foreigners out of every European league, and return every European player home to their respective domestic leagues, you would quite likely see Serie A or the Spanish League well on top in Europe, with occasional challenges from the Portuguese, German, Dutch, and less so from the French leagues. Internationally, I would say in all confidence, you would see both Argentina and Brazil dominate, as no footballing nations in any part of the world have the depth and raw talent of the two. Whether in Europe or South America, international football success certainly has a very strong Latin flavour, as is the case even in this current environment, e.g. top 3 players in the world- Ronaldo, Messi, Kaka. European champions – Spain, word champions of the last 2 world cups- Italy, Brazil, world champions at under 21 level since I can remember- Argentina. The conclusion, Latin football is light years ahead, but don’t take my word for it, read the record books for yourselves.
Posted from
Australia
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