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	<title>Comments on: Why the French Want 6+5</title>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131188</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131188</guid>
		<description>Great article. Inspired me to research it further:
http://footballssoul.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/state-of-the-game/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article. Inspired me to research it further:<br />
<a href="http://footballssoul.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/state-of-the-game/" rel="nofollow">http://footballssoul.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/state-of-the-game/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131106</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131106</guid>
		<description>i dont get it. there&#039;s only a maximum of 23 players in every national team, so, take england for example, how could every club in england field 6 players on the english national team? or am i just not reading this right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i dont get it. there&#8217;s only a maximum of 23 players in every national team, so, take england for example, how could every club in england field 6 players on the english national team? or am i just not reading this right?</p>
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		<title>By: Foreverzidane</title>
		<link>http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131091</link>
		<dc:creator>Foreverzidane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131091</guid>
		<description>I admire your passion but please take a deep breath as we&#039;re all fans of the same teams. This argument is the same as the one used for the employment of the visible minorities specially women, and those of different backgrounds other than the white anglos here in Canada,
basically as an &quot;EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYMENT PROGRAM&quot;.
Though I whole heartedly AGREE with your view points as player selections should be based solely on MERIT, but currently the fans of the EPL understandably are crying for more players from England! How else those same players with less talent could harvest their techniques than being amongst the best, ENVIRONMENT IS KEY!
Are Turkey&#039;s larger land section or Israel on any map, part of Europe? Obviously not, but look at how their football has flourished that no one would take these teams lightly! By competing amongst the best you&#039;ll develop a superiror form.
I&#039;m no expert commenting on the Grass roots of any country, but a 1st world nation like England has all the
facilities and I&#039;m sure that they also have loads of talent waiting to be discovered.
It is a joke World Cup time with the Mideast and Asian teams as they might have 2 players playing in europe, but those star players have to suffer because of the lack of the caliber of their team mates who never get the chance of playing against the Europeans on a fairly regular basis. So they get blown out by Germany 6-0!
Is that the kind of experience they were looking for, do you think?
So hypothetically players such the Toure brothers are not being discriminated against but players such as  Walcot who &quot;should be a starter&quot; are given priority for the improvement of the level of their league and hence the National team! I know the faults of this system, but
no solution is ever the PERFECT one!
The growing infusion of foreign players is doing nothing for English football, and other NATIONAL programs.
I believe that it is a step in the right direction, however idiotic it might seem to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admire your passion but please take a deep breath as we&#8217;re all fans of the same teams. This argument is the same as the one used for the employment of the visible minorities specially women, and those of different backgrounds other than the white anglos here in Canada,<br />
basically as an &#8220;EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYMENT PROGRAM&#8221;.<br />
Though I whole heartedly AGREE with your view points as player selections should be based solely on MERIT, but currently the fans of the EPL understandably are crying for more players from England! How else those same players with less talent could harvest their techniques than being amongst the best, ENVIRONMENT IS KEY!<br />
Are Turkey&#8217;s larger land section or Israel on any map, part of Europe? Obviously not, but look at how their football has flourished that no one would take these teams lightly! By competing amongst the best you&#8217;ll develop a superiror form.<br />
I&#8217;m no expert commenting on the Grass roots of any country, but a 1st world nation like England has all the<br />
facilities and I&#8217;m sure that they also have loads of talent waiting to be discovered.<br />
It is a joke World Cup time with the Mideast and Asian teams as they might have 2 players playing in europe, but those star players have to suffer because of the lack of the caliber of their team mates who never get the chance of playing against the Europeans on a fairly regular basis. So they get blown out by Germany 6-0!<br />
Is that the kind of experience they were looking for, do you think?<br />
So hypothetically players such the Toure brothers are not being discriminated against but players such as  Walcot who &#8220;should be a starter&#8221; are given priority for the improvement of the level of their league and hence the National team! I know the faults of this system, but<br />
no solution is ever the PERFECT one!<br />
The growing infusion of foreign players is doing nothing for English football, and other NATIONAL programs.<br />
I believe that it is a step in the right direction, however idiotic it might seem to you.</p>
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		<title>By: set</title>
		<link>http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131083</link>
		<dc:creator>set</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131083</guid>
		<description>sandrahn:
Honestly, I&#039;m not really convinced by this rule myself, but qualifying it as &quot;very poorly thought out, utterly superficial, naive and totally blind to consequences&quot; seems oversimplifying to me.
I think it&#039;s pretty hard to predict what would happen with precision. Your arguments made sense but, to me, are too extreme.
You extrapolate and show only one side of the story. Like any change of rules, there would be both good and bad impacts. The hard part is seeing them all, and quantifying them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sandrahn:<br />
Honestly, I&#8217;m not really convinced by this rule myself, but qualifying it as &#8220;very poorly thought out, utterly superficial, naive and totally blind to consequences&#8221; seems oversimplifying to me.<br />
I think it&#8217;s pretty hard to predict what would happen with precision. Your arguments made sense but, to me, are too extreme.<br />
You extrapolate and show only one side of the story. Like any change of rules, there would be both good and bad impacts. The hard part is seeing them all, and quantifying them.</p>
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		<title>By: set</title>
		<link>http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131082</link>
		<dc:creator>set</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131082</guid>
		<description>&quot;A player quota will drive prices up for local players in all European leagues to ridiculous levels, as clubs seek to follow this rigid quota. Big clubs will hoard all the better local talent, leaving the dross for smaller clubs to divide among themselves. How does this achieve competitiveness? For a small club to be competitive, they need to be able to buy good affordable players regardless of nationality. Now this new element of nationality will further limit their choices, and their competitiveness.&quot;

Wouldn&#039;t it just force them to focus on training young players? Like you said, local players prices will increase, so the clubs who manage to produce better talents will develop considerably: they will be able to sell their young players for more money.

&quot;Oh — one final thing, under a 6+5 rule, the game can say goodbye to players like Cristiano Ronaldo, Adebayor, George Weah, Essien, Hleb, Roque Santa Cruz, Eto’o, the Toure brothers and so many others.&quot;

I disagree strongly here. Essien is the perfect example that it will always be possible for exceptional foreign players to break through: He came to France in Bastia first. THEN moved to Lyon. Maybe they won&#039;t be recruited by Arsenal at 17, but they&#039;ll be able to join smaller teams and start from there.
It&#039;s 6+5, not 11+0, and it&#039;s the same for all 20 teams of each league. That&#039;s plenty of room for great players to develop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A player quota will drive prices up for local players in all European leagues to ridiculous levels, as clubs seek to follow this rigid quota. Big clubs will hoard all the better local talent, leaving the dross for smaller clubs to divide among themselves. How does this achieve competitiveness? For a small club to be competitive, they need to be able to buy good affordable players regardless of nationality. Now this new element of nationality will further limit their choices, and their competitiveness.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it just force them to focus on training young players? Like you said, local players prices will increase, so the clubs who manage to produce better talents will develop considerably: they will be able to sell their young players for more money.</p>
<p>&#8220;Oh — one final thing, under a 6+5 rule, the game can say goodbye to players like Cristiano Ronaldo, Adebayor, George Weah, Essien, Hleb, Roque Santa Cruz, Eto’o, the Toure brothers and so many others.&#8221;</p>
<p>I disagree strongly here. Essien is the perfect example that it will always be possible for exceptional foreign players to break through: He came to France in Bastia first. THEN moved to Lyon. Maybe they won&#8217;t be recruited by Arsenal at 17, but they&#8217;ll be able to join smaller teams and start from there.<br />
It&#8217;s 6+5, not 11+0, and it&#8217;s the same for all 20 teams of each league. That&#8217;s plenty of room for great players to develop.</p>
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		<title>By: sandrahn</title>
		<link>http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131081</link>
		<dc:creator>sandrahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131081</guid>
		<description>That &quot;smilie&quot; icon came up because I type the number 8 for some reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That &#8220;smilie&#8221; icon came up because I type the number 8 for some reason.</p>
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		<title>By: sandrahn</title>
		<link>http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131080</link>
		<dc:creator>sandrahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131080</guid>
		<description>And Nolan, do some research before posting stupid and ignorant comments.  It is a myth that France &quot;poaches&quot; players from Africa.  None of the players of African descent on the French national team ever even played in Africa, they were all born and raised in France, or emigrated to France as toddlers (ages like 2, 4, 8) and raised, educated and trained in France.  They&#039;re Frenchmen--only ignorant bigots refuse to acknowledge that fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Nolan, do some research before posting stupid and ignorant comments.  It is a myth that France &#8220;poaches&#8221; players from Africa.  None of the players of African descent on the French national team ever even played in Africa, they were all born and raised in France, or emigrated to France as toddlers (ages like 2, 4, <img src='http://www.theoffside.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> and raised, educated and trained in France.  They&#8217;re Frenchmen&#8211;only ignorant bigots refuse to acknowledge that fact.</p>
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		<title>By: sandrahn</title>
		<link>http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131078</link>
		<dc:creator>sandrahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131078</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but the arguments for this rule just don&#039;t hold water.  They&#039;re very poorly thought out, utterly superficial, naive and totally blind to consequences.  

Yes, I&#039;m an Arsenal supporter.  Regardless of what you may think, my position on this issue would be exactly the same were I a supporter of Everton or Villareal or Marseille.  I agree that you don&#039;t have to be racist to favor this rule but you are wrong to believe that the only arguments against it are based on the erroneous charge of racism.

The basic problem with this rule is that it assumes that all countries have the same level and quality of player development at the grassroots -- and that all countries have the same financial set-up in terms of player pricing.  

Countries like Italy and France can afford to impose a player quota for the simple reason that they have a deep pool of talent to recruit from within their own countries.  They have excellent grassroots player development systems.  Notice, however, that even they dip into the foreign transfer market more and more.

What about countries that do not have the same grassroots culture that France and Italy have?  England, of course, is the obvious example.  For England to reach even the halfway point of what France, Italy and Holland have achieved (developing players from young ages in good technical skills that will allow them to compete on the int&#039;l stage), England will need at least 20 years worth of dramatic changes in its very backward youth football culture.  And 20 years is optimistic.  

England simply does not have the kind of pool of talent that France and Italy have because English kids are not taught good basics of technique, nor are English coaches capable of imparting these skills to them.  

It is no accident that the higher up you go in the English league, the fewer English players you see--the fact is that there are very very few English kids with the skills and talent to compete at the very highest levels.  Man Utd and Chelsea may have English players but they&#039;re all getting older and there aren&#039;t any young ones coming thru from their academies.  And I don&#039;t see either club buying up any in the transfer market.

Furthermore, a player quota will drive up player prices to obscene levels.  In England, this will be catastrophic because prices of English players are already outrageously inflated.  Foreign clubs don&#039;t bid for even the best English players because their prices are ridiculous.  If you want to just buy a good English footballer (not great, just decent), you have to pay at least 10 million POUNDS or more.

A player quota will drive prices up for local players in all European leagues to ridiculous levels, as clubs seek to follow this rigid quota.  Big clubs will hoard all the better local talent, leaving the dross for smaller clubs to divide among themselves.  How does this achieve competitiveness?  For a small club to be competitive, they need to be able to buy good affordable players regardless of nationality.  Now this new element of nationality will further limit their choices, and their competitiveness.

This thoroughly naive, blinkered idea will also prioritize nationality before merit.  Managers will now have to add a new element in their decision-making for tactics, strategy, team selection.  Merit and quality won&#039;t be enough.  Managers will be forced to use players because of their nationality (and maybe risk losing games) rather than the needs of the game.  And what about injuries, suspensions?  How can a manager balance following such a rigid rule given the vagaries of the game?

I&#039;m sorry but this is a deeply idiotic idea that--like all stupid ideas--tries to fix a problem by attacking the symptom rather than the CAUSE.  So go ahead and force managers to choose their players based on nationality and not on merit, while failing to address the dysfunctional problems with the quality of player development at the grassroots.

And watch as the quality of the game declines and the monopoly of the big clubs over the best local players becomes even more of a stanglehold.

Oh -- one final thing, under a 6+5 rule, the game can say goodbye to players like Cristiano Ronaldo, Adebayor, George Weah, Essien, Hleb, Roque Santa Cruz, Eto&#039;o, the Toure brothers and so many others. Why?  Because those players will be forced to stay home and never develop their game and break into the highest levels, never fulfill their potential.  It would hurt even a player from the Barca academy like Fabregas--at Barca he was ignored and undervalued, stuck in the reserves, not considered to be a future prospect for them.  

It is a stupid, stupid idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but the arguments for this rule just don&#8217;t hold water.  They&#8217;re very poorly thought out, utterly superficial, naive and totally blind to consequences.  </p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;m an Arsenal supporter.  Regardless of what you may think, my position on this issue would be exactly the same were I a supporter of Everton or Villareal or Marseille.  I agree that you don&#8217;t have to be racist to favor this rule but you are wrong to believe that the only arguments against it are based on the erroneous charge of racism.</p>
<p>The basic problem with this rule is that it assumes that all countries have the same level and quality of player development at the grassroots &#8212; and that all countries have the same financial set-up in terms of player pricing.  </p>
<p>Countries like Italy and France can afford to impose a player quota for the simple reason that they have a deep pool of talent to recruit from within their own countries.  They have excellent grassroots player development systems.  Notice, however, that even they dip into the foreign transfer market more and more.</p>
<p>What about countries that do not have the same grassroots culture that France and Italy have?  England, of course, is the obvious example.  For England to reach even the halfway point of what France, Italy and Holland have achieved (developing players from young ages in good technical skills that will allow them to compete on the int&#8217;l stage), England will need at least 20 years worth of dramatic changes in its very backward youth football culture.  And 20 years is optimistic.  </p>
<p>England simply does not have the kind of pool of talent that France and Italy have because English kids are not taught good basics of technique, nor are English coaches capable of imparting these skills to them.  </p>
<p>It is no accident that the higher up you go in the English league, the fewer English players you see&#8211;the fact is that there are very very few English kids with the skills and talent to compete at the very highest levels.  Man Utd and Chelsea may have English players but they&#8217;re all getting older and there aren&#8217;t any young ones coming thru from their academies.  And I don&#8217;t see either club buying up any in the transfer market.</p>
<p>Furthermore, a player quota will drive up player prices to obscene levels.  In England, this will be catastrophic because prices of English players are already outrageously inflated.  Foreign clubs don&#8217;t bid for even the best English players because their prices are ridiculous.  If you want to just buy a good English footballer (not great, just decent), you have to pay at least 10 million POUNDS or more.</p>
<p>A player quota will drive prices up for local players in all European leagues to ridiculous levels, as clubs seek to follow this rigid quota.  Big clubs will hoard all the better local talent, leaving the dross for smaller clubs to divide among themselves.  How does this achieve competitiveness?  For a small club to be competitive, they need to be able to buy good affordable players regardless of nationality.  Now this new element of nationality will further limit their choices, and their competitiveness.</p>
<p>This thoroughly naive, blinkered idea will also prioritize nationality before merit.  Managers will now have to add a new element in their decision-making for tactics, strategy, team selection.  Merit and quality won&#8217;t be enough.  Managers will be forced to use players because of their nationality (and maybe risk losing games) rather than the needs of the game.  And what about injuries, suspensions?  How can a manager balance following such a rigid rule given the vagaries of the game?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry but this is a deeply idiotic idea that&#8211;like all stupid ideas&#8211;tries to fix a problem by attacking the symptom rather than the CAUSE.  So go ahead and force managers to choose their players based on nationality and not on merit, while failing to address the dysfunctional problems with the quality of player development at the grassroots.</p>
<p>And watch as the quality of the game declines and the monopoly of the big clubs over the best local players becomes even more of a stanglehold.</p>
<p>Oh &#8212; one final thing, under a 6+5 rule, the game can say goodbye to players like Cristiano Ronaldo, Adebayor, George Weah, Essien, Hleb, Roque Santa Cruz, Eto&#8217;o, the Toure brothers and so many others. Why?  Because those players will be forced to stay home and never develop their game and break into the highest levels, never fulfill their potential.  It would hurt even a player from the Barca academy like Fabregas&#8211;at Barca he was ignored and undervalued, stuck in the reserves, not considered to be a future prospect for them.  </p>
<p>It is a stupid, stupid idea.</p>
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		<title>By: rick</title>
		<link>http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131077</link>
		<dc:creator>rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131077</guid>
		<description>why does everyone think that will improve competitiveness in the EPL? the big 4 will still buy the best players. all this means we get fewer robinhos and messis tainting our football with their &#039;talent&#039;. much better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why does everyone think that will improve competitiveness in the EPL? the big 4 will still buy the best players. all this means we get fewer robinhos and messis tainting our football with their &#8216;talent&#8217;. much better.</p>
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		<title>By: Aditya</title>
		<link>http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131076</link>
		<dc:creator>Aditya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 00:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/why-the-french-want-65.html#comment-131076</guid>
		<description>What is England&#039;s stance on this 6-5? All the foreign players are hindering England&#039;s younger players and their national team has become worse and worse as EPL has become better and better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is England&#8217;s stance on this 6-5? All the foreign players are hindering England&#8217;s younger players and their national team has become worse and worse as EPL has become better and better.</p>
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